Same old bill young, if he doesn't get his way, he will take his ball and go home. the agreement was signed by both parties, and there was an escape clause for both parties, the USPS decided to use it, and in bills mind that is unilateral.
I hope that some one at USPS HQ takes this articile to the congressional offices and shows them just how much of a partner bill young and the nalc really are to this organization. If we dont get our way we will step up GRIEVANCES and that will get the attention of some one.
there is one thing I agree with bill about, and that is that DOIS data is flawed, but what bill won't admit to is that some of his letter carriers work performance is also flawed.
In the famous words of Rodney king "can't we all just get along" Because if we don't our union contracts may soon go the way of the nations airlines.
Once again the battle starts. I'm a PM who worked in city and rural offices and evaluated routes is the way to go. I had no hassles with rural carriers and my boss couldn't do anything about the hour usage because rural hours are set. No stress for me, no stress on the carrier, nicely managed routes, carriers made more money for less hours, no problem getting annual leave, no budget worries, pay increased as route increased, carriers had ownership of route, no grievances, clearer contract language, etc. etc. Do you carriers think we enjoy having to find ways to cut routes because we are ordered to reduce the budget? It will always be a bad place to work as long as conflict exists. Eliminate conflict and you eliminate all problems.
I am a postmaster in an office where I was completely open to this idea. However, it was my union rep who came into my office with this hardhead attitude and he wouldn't budge on anything. IT was absolutly impossible because no matter what idea I had he didn't like it and expected me to love and sign off on all of his. It was terrible. Managment is not totally at fault. In my district, the managers tried hard to do what was right. It was the union in my opinion that runined it.
This one was a no-brainer. The postal service already screws over it's employees just fine with the current route inspection methods. They hide behind trees, hold back the mail, change things we do every other day of the year just for inspection week, make unjustified time deductions...among other things. Why ever would they want to change it?
114 pm. What more can they do? Why should they change? Take a look at Texas. They just took away 15,000 city carrier routes. Although volume is up, the highest its ever been, they want more bang for the buck. The customer is no longer important, money and bonus' are. The bottom line is the god of the postal management. Wake up and see the light. United States Postal Service, should be changed to United States Postal. The service went out 15 years ago.
The Postal Service got out cause it was the right thing to do. The NALC could stonewall forever, and guess what? All of these carriers with declining cased volumes (which includes almost everyone) can just sit back and continue to be paid 8 hours pay for 7 hours of work. Why should the Postal Sevice allow that to continue? Would any other business in America? Agree to evaluated routes, or fellows, let's grab the clipboards and get back to work adjusting these routes to 8 hours!!!
hey nalc members do not buy the crap that evaluated routes are the way to go.Postal management will screw you during a mail count and lower your standard of living one cursed way or another.these posters aretrying to deceive you. Just ask a rural carrier how its going. Hopefully you will find one that will let you know what has really happened to our craft in the last 15 years.
I have to agree with the ones that believe city should go to evaluated routes. Would'nt you like to be able to go home at 2pm on a nice summer day, and still get paid for 8 hours???
Listen to all of you! Do you not understand that is why everyone is talking about postal reform? You will never learn until your out of a job and asking what happened?
i have to disagree with mr young blaming management, i belive the blame should be shared equally by both sides, i sat in on meetings that both sides argued about this and that and one could tell that this would go no where, evaluated routes would be the way to go as stated by another party, no hassale either way by anyone, ownership is where it's at. we continue to forget the customer who will soon choose another service provider we need to stop this _ _ _ _ and work together.
LOOK OUT!! Congress will soon be asked to set a nation-wide mandate to all citizens. PUT A CURBSIDE BOX NEXT TO YOUR HOUSE, OR YOU WILL GET NO MAIL! The end is near Letter-Carriers, you will be cut back to almost non-existence.
All of you who want evaluated routes are insane! Do you really think that if you go home everyday at 2, management will not add to your route? Obviously, you should not be paid for 8 hrs. if your route is consistently that short. They will find a way to add to it.
To all of you with routes that are too long: PUT IN FOR A SPECIAL INSPECTION. Quit whining about how long your route is and DO SOMETHING about it!
5:51, I couldn’t have said it better. If you have a route that is out of adjustment (put in for a special route check)! It’s not the NALC’s job to get your route adjusted for you, we have several of these types in my office. Crying all the time about their routes but never doing anything about it. One guy actually went out on sick leave the last time we had our office inspected, he really showed them. Now everyday he blames THE UNION for his route being out of adjustment, he thinks our Stewart should be replaced because he can’t get his route adjusted but he’s too chicken to put in for a special route check.
Bill Young is right. The whole idea behind the joint agreement was not only to stop the daily BS of the 3996, but the underlying issue was that if we could get a settlement on how routes should be adjusted it would reduce grievances as a whole. The underlying problem of most grievances can be pointed at the daily bickering over the 3996, which in the end makes for bad relationship. Bill Young came up with the Dispute Resolution Process, which has been a major success. Harvard University Business School has praised the success of DRP. Bill Young is probably the best president the NALC has had. At least he has ideas on how to ensure the survival of the Postal Service and has major backing by the Mailing industry. He is also one of the major architects of Postal Reform. I do not blame Bill Young for being upset. However, the major problem is the dispute that is going on at USPS headquarters. There are two camps, one that believes that working with the NALC is the answer especially over the Route Adjustment Memorandum and the other that believes that the USPS should have complete control over the process top-down. The old managerial style. At this point, the old managerial style camp has won out on this issue. Until someone wakes up at USPS headquarters, we will continue down the slippery slope of labor relations.
So inspections do nothing but screw carriers and eveil managers hide behind trees? Please.
Are you all going to continue pretending that the free time virtually EVERY SINGLE CARRIER has built into their route doesn't exist? Do you really all believe management is as dumb as you claim it is, and that it has no idea of the number or length of breaks that are taken every day? Really? Have you asked yourself why it takes a conscious effort to actually slow down during inspections to make certain you come in with the amount of street time you need?
This whole debate is ridiculous. BOTH sides have been peeing on each other's leg and trying to convince the other party it's raining out for far too many years. Bill Young's rhetoric does nothing to improve on a cruddy system - he apparently believes if management doesn't agree with how HE'D evaluate the route, than the carriers are once again being abused, and that management invoking a clause of the agreement that he negotiated (ending the process) somehow constitutes a unilateral action. And management's shortcoming is that it lacks the intestinal fortitude to tell the NALC it needs to own up to the abuse that happens every day on the street and to deal in reality. Pathetic.
By reading these post, it is easy to tell who was a carrier or is a carrier. The ones that bash carriers either never carried mail or worked for a living. As far as evaluated routes go, ask the rural carriers, they want out of the system. They want to start bargaining for an hourly wage.
The USPS announced today the hiring of 50,000 chimpanzees to deliver mail in future years. The chimp carriers will be phased in as human letter carriers retire. Recent experiments have shown that the chimps work 15 hours a day for carrots, apples and bananas; are willing to work 7 days a week; take no breaks (except for restroom breaks); take no annual or sick leave; and expect no compensation other than food and a tree in which to sleep. Reading tests indicate a level equal to most letter carriers with almost no misdelivery after one day on the route. Psychological tests indicated that the chimps all had IQ's equal to or better than NALC President Young.
If the NALC had control over it's members and worked with good faith all the way down the ladder, then the system could have worked. Local level members could care less about what the NALC supports if it doesn't serve the local interest and the greed of the carrier. 95% of carriers are great employees. Why do they continually have to carry the 5% including local NALC officers. Same goes for the incompetent managers at the local level. Grow up both of you.
Another 2 hours OT today. Yesterday 1 hour of V Time. Its great delivering in NY. 12 degrees and 15 inches of snow and ice on the ground. Last year made 60,000 this year will try for 70,000 + Christmas. Evaluate my ASS! HA HA
If you have ever seen chimps you know they spend half their time having sex. Will the USPS allow them to have sex on the job? They can have sex with the managers. By the way, if you cross a chimp with a postal manager you get a smarter manager.
Oh good one 3:59! Thats the best you can do? Typical manager, always a day late and a dollar short! Coming up with the lame chimp anaology would only tend to make one believe you are speaking on a subject dear to yourself. Loser, LOL!
Nationwide, Management, Union, keep screwing the system. Congress will settle it. "That's not my job", "DOIS sucks", "What it is is what it is". Let's spend two months validating the data going into DOIS. Union says DOIS sucks.
Daily evaluations do not work. Evaluated routes would put most Union burecrats out of business. Nothing will happen until Congress and the American people weigh in.
Sorry Bill Young and NALC, no one, but your zealots will back your position. Unfortunately for you and your members and the USPS, it will be too late.
I agree with all postal customers putting their boxes on the street for curb delivery. We are working for an aging work force, carriers need to get off their feet, they will need to since carriers under FERS will be working until 65 years of age, lets help them out! All customers put boxes on the curb, then adjust the routes and leave them alone, regardless of mail volume declining or increasing. Let the carriers do their job, 99% of them, thats all they want to do!
Whoever wrote that comment about built in free time that every route has should come to my Post Office and follow me or any of our city carriers around for a few days. You'll eat your words.
31 comments:
Same old bill young, if he doesn't get his way, he will take his ball and go home. the agreement was signed by both parties, and there was an escape clause for both parties, the USPS decided to use it, and in bills mind that is unilateral.
I hope that some one at USPS HQ takes this articile to the congressional offices and shows them just how much of a partner bill young and the nalc really are to this organization. If we dont get our way we will step up GRIEVANCES and that will get the attention of some one.
there is one thing I agree with bill about, and that is that DOIS data is flawed, but what bill won't admit to is that some of his letter carriers work performance is also flawed.
In the famous words of Rodney king "can't we all just get along" Because if we don't our union contracts may soon go the way of the nations airlines.
thanks for the memories;
retired and loving it
Once again the battle starts. I'm a PM who worked in city and rural offices and evaluated routes is the way to go. I had no hassles with rural carriers and my boss couldn't do anything about the hour usage because rural hours are set. No stress for me, no stress on the carrier, nicely managed routes, carriers made more money for less hours, no problem getting annual leave, no budget worries, pay increased as route increased, carriers had ownership of route, no grievances, clearer contract language, etc. etc. Do you carriers think we enjoy having to find ways to cut routes because we are ordered to reduce the budget? It will always be a bad place to work as long as conflict exists. Eliminate conflict and you eliminate all problems.
I am a postmaster in an office where I was completely open to this idea. However, it was my union rep who came into my office with this hardhead attitude and he wouldn't budge on anything. IT was absolutly impossible because no matter what idea I had he didn't like it and expected me to love and sign off on all of his. It was terrible. Managment is not totally at fault. In my district, the managers tried hard to do what was right. It was the union in my opinion that runined it.
This one was a no-brainer. The postal service already screws over it's employees just fine with the current route inspection methods. They hide behind trees, hold back the mail, change things we do every other day of the year just for inspection week, make unjustified time deductions...among other things. Why ever would they want to change it?
114 pm. What more can they do? Why should they change?
Take a look at Texas. They just took away 15,000 city carrier routes. Although volume is up, the highest its ever been, they want more bang for the buck. The customer is no longer important, money and bonus' are.
The bottom line is the god of the postal management.
Wake up and see the light. United States Postal Service, should be changed to United States Postal. The service went out 15 years ago.
The Postal Service got out cause it was the right thing to do. The NALC could stonewall forever, and guess what? All of these carriers with declining cased volumes (which includes almost everyone) can just sit back and continue to be paid 8 hours pay for 7 hours of work. Why should the Postal Sevice allow that to continue? Would any other business in America? Agree to evaluated routes, or fellows, let's grab the clipboards and get back to work adjusting these routes to 8 hours!!!
hey nalc members do not buy the crap that evaluated routes are the way to go.Postal management will screw you during a mail count and lower your standard of living one cursed way or another.these posters aretrying to deceive you. Just ask a rural carrier how its going. Hopefully you will find one that will let you know what has really happened to our craft in the last 15 years.
I have to agree with the ones that believe city should go to evaluated routes. Would'nt you like to be able to go home at 2pm on a nice summer day, and still get paid for 8 hours???
Listen to all of you! Do you not understand that is why everyone is talking about postal reform? You will never learn until your out of a job and asking what happened?
i have to disagree with mr young blaming management, i belive the blame should be shared equally by both sides, i sat in on meetings that both sides argued about this and that and one could tell that this would go no where, evaluated routes would be the way to go as stated by another party, no hassale either way by anyone, ownership is where it's at. we continue to forget the customer who will soon choose another service provider we need to stop this _ _ _ _ and work together.
LOOK OUT!!
Congress will soon be asked to set a nation-wide mandate to all citizens. PUT A CURBSIDE BOX NEXT TO YOUR HOUSE, OR YOU WILL GET NO MAIL!
The end is near Letter-Carriers, you will be cut back to almost non-existence.
Evaluating a mounted rural route makes sense, but how do you evaluate a walking city route?
All of you who want evaluated routes are insane! Do you really think that if you go home everyday at 2, management will not add to your route? Obviously, you should not be paid for 8 hrs. if your route is consistently that short. They will find a way to add to it.
To all of you with routes that are too long: PUT IN FOR A SPECIAL INSPECTION. Quit whining about how long your route is and DO SOMETHING about it!
5:51, I couldn’t have said it better. If you have a route that is out of adjustment (put in for a special route check)!
It’s not the NALC’s job to get your route adjusted for you, we have several of these types in my office. Crying all the time about their routes but never doing anything about it. One guy actually went out on sick leave the last time we had our office inspected, he really showed them. Now everyday he blames THE UNION for his route being out of adjustment, he thinks our Stewart should be replaced because he can’t get his route adjusted but he’s too chicken to put in for a special route check.
Bill Young is right. The whole idea behind the joint agreement was not only to stop the daily BS of the 3996, but the underlying issue was that if we could get a settlement on how routes should be adjusted it would reduce grievances as a whole. The underlying problem of most grievances can be pointed at the daily bickering over the 3996, which in the end makes for bad relationship. Bill Young came up with the Dispute Resolution Process, which has been a major success. Harvard University Business School has praised the success of DRP. Bill Young is probably the best president the NALC has had. At least he has ideas on how to ensure the survival of the Postal Service and has major backing by the Mailing industry. He is also one of the major architects of Postal Reform. I do not blame Bill Young for being upset. However, the major problem is the dispute that is going on at USPS headquarters. There are two camps, one that believes that working with the NALC is the answer especially over the Route Adjustment Memorandum and the other that believes that the USPS should have complete control over the process top-down. The old managerial style. At this point, the old managerial style camp has won out on this issue. Until someone wakes up at USPS headquarters, we will continue down the slippery slope of labor relations.
Simple solution NALC is afraid of - Evaluated routes nationwide. The postal service should just do it.
So inspections do nothing but screw carriers and eveil managers hide behind trees? Please.
Are you all going to continue pretending that the free time virtually EVERY SINGLE CARRIER has built into their route doesn't exist? Do you really all believe management is as dumb as you claim it is, and that it has no idea of the number or length of breaks that are taken every day? Really? Have you asked yourself why it takes a conscious effort to actually slow down during inspections to make certain you come in with the amount of street time you need?
This whole debate is ridiculous. BOTH sides have been peeing on each other's leg and trying to convince the other party it's raining out for far too many years. Bill Young's rhetoric does nothing to improve on a cruddy system - he apparently believes if management doesn't agree with how HE'D evaluate the route, than the carriers are once again being abused, and that management invoking a clause of the agreement that he negotiated (ending the process) somehow constitutes a unilateral action. And management's shortcoming is that it lacks the intestinal fortitude to tell the NALC it needs to own up to the abuse that happens every day on the street and to deal in reality. Pathetic.
By reading these post, it is easy to tell who was a carrier or is a carrier. The ones that bash carriers either never carried mail or worked for a living. As far as evaluated routes go, ask the rural carriers, they want out of the system. They want to start bargaining for an hourly wage.
The USPS announced today the hiring of 50,000 chimpanzees to deliver mail in future years. The chimp carriers will be phased in as human letter carriers retire. Recent experiments have shown that the chimps work 15 hours a day for carrots, apples and bananas; are willing to work 7 days a week; take no breaks (except for restroom breaks); take no annual or sick leave; and expect no compensation other than food and a tree in which to sleep. Reading tests indicate a level equal to most letter carriers with almost no misdelivery after one day on the route. Psychological tests indicated that the chimps all had IQ's equal to or better than NALC President Young.
If the NALC had control over it's members and worked with good faith all the way down the ladder, then the system could have worked. Local level members could care less about what the NALC supports if it doesn't serve the local interest and the greed of the carrier. 95% of carriers are great employees. Why do they continually have to carry the 5% including local NALC officers. Same goes for the incompetent managers at the local level. Grow up both of you.
1153 you do not know what you are talking about. you must either be a postmaster or someone that came out of a insane asylum
516 it only makes sense to have curbside deliveries
Another 2 hours OT today. Yesterday 1 hour of V Time. Its great delivering in NY. 12 degrees and 15 inches of snow and ice on the ground. Last year made 60,000 this year will try for 70,000 + Christmas. Evaluate my ASS!
HA HA
2:38- The only one dumber than a chimp would be you.
If you have ever seen chimps you know they spend half their time having sex. Will the USPS allow them to have sex on the job? They can have sex with the managers. By the way, if you cross a chimp with a postal manager you get a smarter manager.
8:36 PM -- How could you say something like this about your father? Shame on you.
At 8:36 PM, Anonymous said...
2:38- The only one dumber than a chimp would be you.
Oh good one 3:59! Thats the best you can do?
Typical manager, always a day late and a dollar short!
Coming up with the lame chimp anaology would only tend to make one believe you are speaking on a subject dear to yourself. Loser, LOL!
In N.Y. is right on. I'm trying for the same salary.
Inspections this coming spring. Just try to make the job worst than they are.
Nationwide, Management, Union, keep screwing the system. Congress will settle it. "That's not my job", "DOIS sucks", "What it is is what it is". Let's spend two months validating the data going into DOIS. Union says DOIS sucks.
Daily evaluations do not work. Evaluated routes would put most Union burecrats out of business. Nothing will happen until Congress and the American people weigh in.
Sorry Bill Young and NALC, no one, but your zealots will back your position. Unfortunately for you and your members and the USPS, it will be too late.
I agree with all postal customers putting their boxes on the street for curb delivery. We are working for an aging work force, carriers need to get off their feet, they will need to since carriers under FERS will be working until 65 years of age, lets help them out! All customers put boxes on the curb, then adjust the routes and leave them alone, regardless of mail volume declining or increasing. Let the carriers do their job, 99% of them, thats all they want to do!
Whoever wrote that comment about built in free time that every route has should come to my Post Office and follow me or any of our city carriers around for a few days. You'll eat your words.
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