"I have asked the CAU to prepare national level Interpretive Step grievances protesting the use of the DOIS and the COR programs," Young said. "I am deeply troubled that the Postal Service is making a number of important decisions on the basis of information contained in these two systems that I think is flawed."
NALC President Bill Young in the NALC Bulletin
37 comments:
Young must mean flawed because these systems are good tools to judge workloads, apparently it does not figure in extended lunch and break periods or hiding time.
Yep, typical Union mentality putting an anchor around the neck of efficiency. Drag the USPS to the bottom of the ocean why dont you.
I am happy to read that National Association of Letter Carriers President, William Young is filing a national grevience against the Postal Service. This is overdue as I, a letter carrier can attest to the fact that the DOIS numbers are out of line. I have shown my super-
visor, EL FATSO, that he was wrong on the count that he put down on several occasions. EL FATSO, feels that the DOIS numbers are correct, but when the carrier can prove that the count is wrong, he uses the HARASSMENT TACTIC fo following the carrier on the street. EL FATSO was written upo by several carriers, one who due to his age would file HARASSMENT & AGE DISCRIMINATION CHARGES
which he would hand to the shop steward. So far nothing was done as EL FATSO was on temporary duty, so all the charges were put on hold. This is a continuing pattern in the post office as these bosses want their bonuses & do not care for the employee.
As for the first two comments, what was written tells me that you are part of management, and the word ASS-
HOLES fits you both PERFECTLY, BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. KEEP UP YOUR STUPIDITY. I enjoy reading it, and then have a good laugh at management's STUPIDITY.
LUMP'S LUMP
Obviously the "carrier" who posted the previous comment is not aware that there is no such thing as "PERFECT" in any system. DOIS is just one tool to manage and is not the only tool. There is no question that there are "flaws" but as managers/supervisors we must manage all the same. The data is only as good as the numbers we enter into the system. From the context of the carriers commentary it is obvious that vulgarity and hatred are acceptable methods of operation for his unit. Unfortunately this means only perpetuates bad decisions and a poor working environment. My advice is to 1: put the shoe on the other foot and try to make a difference rather that bitterly critize, and 2: try positive actions rather than destructive ones. You might notice a pleasant result. Remember there's always two sides to every story.
P.S. Just for your information, management does not get bonuses. Obviously you haven't heard that yet!!!
Lump,
As you just stated, he input incorrect volumes. In my experience, if a carrier disputes the volume in DOIS, I have him pull down and we compare the volumes. If they are different, I correct what is in DOIS, if not, the carrier either comes back in the correct time or he doesn't. In most cases, the figures are correct. You must note, I am the one who puts those figures in, if I put garbage in, I get garbage out, the figures must be put in correctly, and when they are, my carriers usually are within 5-10 minutes of what DOIS says. If you are having trouble with DOIS, it may be that the supervisor missed some volumes, the 3999 may not be current, especially if you are new on the route. Invite him to compare what you pull down to what DOIS says, if there is an error there, have him fix it and after it's fixed if you can't agree on the time, invite him to go with you. If I go with a carrier and he's right and there are no time wasting practices, I consider the case closed and add the additional time as neccessary. That does happen, however, there are the carriers who will do just fine when I am with them but as soon as they are not supervised, will inflate their street time dramatically. And you wonder why we have supervision.
If you managers have set the routes up to be a true 8 hrs. Then why not just leave us the fvck alone?
Don't cry about overtime when it's justified, don't beg for undertime; just know that some days will be over the 8 (that you set up) some will be under and it will pretty much be a wash. Does any manager out there know
that if you leave people alone to do their jobs most will do a good job? If we can count on being left alone to do what needs to be done most of us will NOT milk the clock as we would much prefer to get the hell off the clock go home and enjoy our real life. However,
when management micro's, and pushes, and intimidates,
the PO ends up with recalitrant employees that will Milk the system to it's fullest and any savings that came about through negative managing is dwarfed in comparison to the sheer will power of pissed off employees that will do everything in their power to "rip off" the system. It's a natural reaction to having our 'peace of mind' ripped off. Create an ugly work environment, and that's what you'll get. And let's face it their are far more employees than managers so we win by sheer numbers. Or should I say we ALL lose....
Ya know, in a perfect post office we(managers and supervisors) would love to just "leave carriers alone to do their job" but obviously that did'nt work cause someone was ripping off the system as you put it and now we have to micro manage to stop that practice. You can thank your fellow carriers who felt the need to not put in an honest days work for an honest days pay for the things we now have to manage. Remember this is a business whether you like to believe it or not and efficiency is key with ALL postal employees managers included. If you took a few minutes to look around, you would notice that ALL crafts in the PO have been managed more closely in the last 2 years from clerks to mailhandlers to rural carriers and yes even to managers so don't feel alone. We all are having to go through changes. Maybe you should open your eyes and see beyond your own unit and look toward the survival of the PO as a whole and not just your own job.
The comments above are perfect examples of why the USPS should be privatized.Let these employees work in the private sector and see how long they last with their anti-employer attitudes.
Privatize exactly!! Seldom, if ever, will a lazy ass carrier come up to management and volunteer undertime when the mail is light. But, have a little over reference volume and you better duck from the 96's. I simply go out and find them expanding their lunches, and suspend them. In addition I write a letter and send it to thier loved ones explaining the pompass ass's ethics. Damn I love my job.
You act like no one here has worked in the private sector.Many of us have and they have their own problems .I worked in private industry for 12+ yrs and I never encountered the utter mismangement I've see in my 15yrs at the P.O. Yes there are poor craft employees,however, only in the P.O. will managers constantly badger and micro-manage their BEST employees as much as their worst!So with that kind of logic of course you end up with everyone unhappy and less than 100% productive.Oh, and please don't try the "blame the union" bs. Managers just can't seem to leave their good workers be and focus their attention where it is needed.
Young is full of hot air.Thanks to him and his predecessor,we are now a "company-union".Look who's getting the shaft!
Did you find them expanding their lunch during your own 2 hr lunch?How dare they!!!!!
Hey managers-
Who has the more effecient work methods city or rural
carriers? (Be honest now).
postal management sucks
THE PROBLEM IS THE PERCENT TO STANDARD ON THE DOIS REPORT,LOCAL MANAGEMENT HAS NO CLUE ON HOW TO SET THIS NUMBER,WHICH SHOULD BE SET TO 100%. MANAGEMENT ONLY SEES A BOGUS REPORT THAT IS SET TO AN INFLATED STANDARD. MOST SUPERVISORS WON'T CHANGE PERCENT TO STANDARD OR DO THEY KNOW HOW TO PROPERLY ADJUST THIS NUMBER. IT MUST BE TO MUCH WORK FOR THEM TO DO. I HAVE BEEN A NALC UNION OFFICER FOR MANY YEARS AND MOST MANAGERS IN THE USPS COULDN'T MANAGE A FRUIT STAND.
Gruntled has it right.
Here's the real scoop folks. Those at the Big Elephant
really do know the score. What they are trying to do now
is overkill. The turnip has been sqeezed of all it's juice and now they are sqeezing for blood. The pressure is on lower management, i.e. area, district, on down, to eliminate permanent positions. Conditions will continue to deteriorate and loss of productivity will be charged to the cost of doing business as the real agenenda will be to facilitate a flexible workforce.
Carvin Marvin was just a junior demon compared with
John Lucifer Potter. "Let them make bricks without straw..."
i have been a carrier for 20 years..i dont ever remember a time when management has left us alone to do our jobs..the last thing supervisors want is every one comming to work and being professional and productive..it wouldnt take long to figure out that maybe one supervisor isnt needed.....
Young is bluffing. The NALC has no legit grievances concerning these applications. He's simply trying to avert the utilization of these applications in regard to MOU-01523. He may have asked the CAU to prepare something but the NALC will come out of this with egg all over their faces. They are going to prove that these systems work and make themselves look stupid, AGAIN!
Come on PEOPLE! whatever happened to work ethics? Pride in a (your)job well done? Who applied for the position you are in-the neighbor?? Is the Postal Service asking to much of you, to expect you to do the job they hired and are paying you for? Can you say daily I did earn my salary/wages today and - Yes- that's you, Management,Letter Carriers, Clerks, Mailhandler, Rural Carriers,etc.
Sounds like evaluated routes would put an end to the unrest between carriers and management. Set up city routes the same as rural routes. Pay city carriers a salary for the amount of mail they actually deliver. If routes are evaluated, management will not care how long it takes to deliver the route, thus eliminating micromanagement. If DOIS and COR are flawed, why not try evaluated routes. Each office I have been in, rural carriers take 100% of the mail daily, and are still in way before the city routes, who curtail mail to be back in eight. Rural routes in the office I am at now have more deliveries than some of the city routes, have over one hundred miles of driving daily, and are still in hours before the city carriers. This would also eliminate the need for a number of supervisors. Sounds like a great plan to me.
Yes, rural routes, my point exactly. Their work method is to case practically everything, organize totally in the office, then hit the street. Management can see this with their own eyes. They even praise the rurals for how fast they are. Yet they implement the exact opposite work methods for city carriers. WHY????
Rural carriers want more deliveries henceforth more money in their pocket. City carriers want less work, more money in their pockets. Managers must supervise city carriers and basically ignore rurals. So now you see why city carriers are constantly watched. Can't wait for the day when city carriers are one hour of office and seven on the street.
"city carriers seven hours on the street." The plant will have to clean up DPS before that will happen. The DPS mess is one of the things that is slowing city carrier down. Some managers are willing to admit this.
sadly, this job is no longer about delivering the mail. It's about making the numbers so management looks good at the district. I have heard nothing about mis-delivered mail being a problem in years.... it still happens, but it no longer matters as long as the numbers add up. I'm caught between a rock and a hard place. I gave my $ to the nalc for 11 years. It took that long for me to realize that the union is just as much the problem as management. But all management cares about is their bonuses or eva's or whatever it's called. All I want to do is deliver the freaking mail to my customers. If I get done early some days, let me go home early. If it's a heavy day, I'll work longer till the job is done. That's all there is to it...it's not rocket science. DOIS will work if the mail volume is entered correctly, but it's really not needed. Just deliver the mail and be safe doing it!!
Here's what else is wrong with DOIS, It does not matter how many parcels They enter The time does not change.
Some routes can get up to 144 parcels and they want to say it doesn't take anymore time. How can it not take time? Everything takes time. This Dois fiasco is another pathetic attempt to make people hurry up and they will push it until someone dies just like they did with starting later and delivering after dark. Someone died now we have a 5:oclock window.
alot of carriers here say they are willing to have some kind of rural setup..where they will do thier job no matter how long it takes ..sounds like management is the ones who have a problem with it...
Quote-
Here's what else is wrong with DOIS, It does not matter how many parcels They enter The time does not change.
Endquote-
Who told you that? It's entirely untrue. To test it, have your supervisor enter 100 parcels in your route, look at the time, then have him take them back out. You will see a time difference. DOIS will calculate time based on caseable letters and flats, parcels and NLM letters and flats. It will also add time for full coverage (sequenced sets) the supervisor can also add miscellaneous street and office time when needed. It is all there when used correctly, maybe your problems are with supervisors who weren't trained properly or don't care. DOIS itself is not the problem.
QUOTE: "It is all there when used correctly, maybe your problems are with supervisors who weren't trained properly or don't care." END QUOTE.
Exactly!! If carriers are considered unskilled labor, supervisors should be considered unskilled (period!).
I am a 204b I know for a fact parcels do not register time in our system. In our office of 35 routes with 1 full time sup. there is no time to accurately put in parcels for each route as they are still being thrown as carriers leave the office. All the current days office mail counts as well as curtailed & delayed, yesterdays 3996's, missed scan reports, AVUS inacuracies, TACs problems, not enough vehicles, faulty gas cards, CDRS by 11:00 a.m. I mean really, it's just no fun being a supervisor anymore. The P.O. has given a whole group of people (supervisors), who were probably looking to get out of working hard, a truckload of busy work that really accomplishes what? analyzing yesterdays data is going to help tomorrow how? meanwhile while yesterdays data is being scrutinized
today is not properly being attended to... oh crap it's 11:03 I missed the CDRS. deadline I don't even have my curtailed volume in DOIS yet.......
First, parcels: parcels DO count in DOIS, but..... you have a BASE number of parcels, and until you reach that BASE number, they DO NOT count ! My base parcel (bigger than a breadbox) count on my route is 13. I never reach that number. Where they came up with that number, I have NO IDEA ! The last inspection I had, I didn't have 13 parcels ALL WEEK -- yet my average DAILY base count is 13 -- go figure !!
Also, if they're not trying to hide something with the DOIS numbers, they why is NO ONE allowed to look at the numbers. As the supervisor puts in the daily counts, DOIS keeps a running total of your time, and after your final pull, you get a final number that says if you are over or under. Yet as soon as the supervisor walks away from the computer, he hides the numbers so no one can check them. Even the steward is not allowed to look at the input, so who knows what kind of garbage is being put in.
Light days are another story, the numbers are broadcast over the whole office by the supe, who makes a point of walking around and blurting out everyone's undertime. But on heavy days, the numbers are a big, closely-guarded secret.
And finally, I work in a small office (18 city routes), and we have 3 supervisors and a postmaster. Yet they all work the same hours -- 6:00 AM - 2:00 PM. With carriers regularly on the street until after 5:30, why are the supervisors long gone and resting at home comfortably at 3:00 ? What if there is an accident ?
And on Saturday (which is supposed to be just another regular workday - it IS for carriers) only 1 supe comes in, and he is gone by 10:00 AM !!!!!!
this all sounds like ohio to me
Young is wrong and just trying to pacify the members, just like he did when he said he was going to petition for early outs for carriers. Look how far that went. He again is just trying to blow smoke so it likes he's doing something worthwhile. We'll see when we get another 1% contract raise, or something similiar to what the rurals ratified.
ooooooooooh a grievience, I'm so scared of the NALC. hahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahah
Let's see who laughs last when contract comes and you get your 1% and I get 8%.
Wow, what a tough no brainer job you have, walk around a put mail into a mailbox. Sounds like a monkey could do that, plus get around twenty an hour plus benefits, you should kiss the ground you walk on for a job like that, how many thousands of people are on the waiting list for a job like yours and your complaining about figures in a computer that tell you what your route is for the day. What a bunch of whiner morons that work at the Post Office. Didn't you people take an oath when you first started saying you'll uphold all the rules of the service.
Can't we all just get along?
I CANT BELIEVE WHAT IM READING, THOSE FAT FVCKING PRICKS SIT ON THEIR FAT FVCKING A$$ES AND PUSH CARRIERS AROUND WITH THEIR BULL$HIT DOIS. LET ME ASK YOU THIS A$$HOLES DOES DOIS COUNT CORRECTLY ACCOUNTABLE MAIL,WEATHER,SHOPPER GUIDES,ADVO'S,DPS VOLUME,DPS ERRORS,MARK UPS,FILLING OUT COA'S,HANDLING CUSTOMERS,OUTGOING MAIL,CARRIER PICK UPS,PARCEL VOLUME,MAIL VOLUME,RECASE MAIL,OFFICE TIME AND EVERY OTHER ASPECT OF CORRECTLY DELIVERING AND SORTING MAIL.
NO IT SHORT CHANGES ON EVERY ASPECT AND FAILS TO RECOGNIZE THINGS AT ALL. IF YOU WANT TO USE IT AS A ESTIMATE TO WITHIN 45 MINUTES THEN FINE, BUT NO YOU WALK AROUND LIKE IT WAS HANDED FROM GOD HIMSELF. EVERY PROGRAM MANAGEMENT HAS IMPLEMENTED THE LAST 20 YEARS HAS FAILED THIS ONE WILL BE NO DIFFERENT. EVERY THING THAT IS WRONG WITH THE USPS IS MANAGEMENTS FAULT. LETTER CARRIERS WORK HARDER THEN ANY OF YOU EVER WILL.AND YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT A HONEST DAYS WORK HA,GO SIT IN YOUR COMFY CHAIR, SHOOT THE SHIT ON THE PHONE, TAKE HOUR AND HALF LUNCHES, PLAY SOLITAIRE ON THE COMPUTER, YOUR THE ONES THAT ARE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE SYSTEM THEY OUGHT TO CREATE A DOIS TO REGULATE MANAGEMENTS HOURS.
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